I think it's fine if they're honest about it or their readership/public understand "ok, they don't actually mean the greatest albums EVER from EVERYWHERE". The magazine first compiled a “500 Greatest Albums of All Time” list in 2003. Something can be popular but not beautiful. Gasp! I would have expected to see Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon much further up the list. One of the rare hip-hop albums Rolling Stone hasn't been relevant since the mid-70s... We in Europe had NME, Melody Maker, MOJO, and lots of other higher quality music magazines... You got any other examples of magazines you think are bigger/more relevant than Rolling Stone? People liking lots of different things does not imply that all these things are beautiful or that beauty is subjective, relative or meaningless. They stuck to their "dad/classic rock + some 90s/early 00s rock + the three jazz/soul albums everyone knows" until the ad revenue wasn't there and they're trying to overcompensate for it. You need to wait enough time to see it all shake out. The math seems a little dodgy. The hubris of that kind of project would outweigh any good it could do. Interestingly Alanis Morisettes mega hit album Jagged Little Pill didn’t make it until this year. So, you can get an objective statement on beauty by understanding beauty as true, good, and virtuous. >Therefore, since this work of art is the antithesis of beauty (ugliness, as you yourself say), it is also bad art. It is heavily weighted towards 60s, 70s and cultural impact more than musical value. I tend to agree with the older lists more simply because I don't like newer music and newer genres so much (particularly rap/pop/modern country). Some of it is probably life stage related but I can't help but think a lot of it is just that they describe a time that now bears little resemblance to our own. Altogether they're pretty distracting make it harder to enjoy the many good parts. Is it asymmetric and poorly proportioned? Really funny/sad that these guys as well as others have historically downplayed rap and other black music, felt the need to placeholder some in recent years, and now have the audacity to act like Kanye's MBDTF is the 17th greatest album of all-time. Pet Sounds (1966) by The Beach Boys / 3. Have you listened to Sgt Pepper recently? Just get Robert Christgau to write it all next time? "This angle on this triangle is 72 degrees" is an objective statement (subject only to measurement error). Rock (particularly classic/hard/blues/prog/experimental) is my favorite genre, and Rolling Stone is more a rock music magazine than anything else, although based on the way these lists are going that seems to be less so over time. Great music is still made of course but great music + popularity + influence in the overall cultural landscape is pretty much dead. the Thomistic view is that: The lists presented were compiled based on votes from selected rock musicians, critics, and industry figures, and predominantly feature British and American music from the 1960s and 1970s. The vast majority of current popular music doesn't appeal to me at all, which simply wasn't true even as recently as the 90s. People reading this list who get worked up about it are just as bad as anyone at Rolling Stone who thinks this list is definitive. Yep. Meanwhile, that station, despite very much being a modern rock station that would blast Nirvana and various other 90s rock bands all day long, nevertheless still had real DJs who would occasionally play older "classic" rock songs like those by Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin, and those songs fucking rocked. Peppers, which isn't the Beatles best. I honestly cannot perceive this as the "absolute" list of greatest albums, as was stated before every listener formulates their own opinion based on preferred media communication. I also would have expected Jimi Hendrix to be more popular then the Twenty One Pilots. We want to hear from you! :). Illmatic (Nas, 1994) jumping 358 spots is crazy. Is the harmonious (think about this in terms past musical theory...)? Rush's Moving Pictures at #379 on latest list and not even present on earlier lists. [1] - https://www.pablopicasso.org/images/paintings/guernica3.jpg, "To produce the beautiful, art must imitate nature. I myself have taken a liking to many Thai music (e.g. Or does it sew discord and disharmony? Rolling Stone Top 50 Albums … Say it ain't so! Obviously this is a super subjective list but I would expect a rock magazine to favor classic rock albums. The thing about objectivity is you can define what you're talking about very precisely, i.e. Otherwise, selecting the judges would be a herculean task. I disagree. As with prior albums, the American and British versions contained slightly different track listings. Just listened to it. Rolling Stone is and always has been just another money-making echo chamber. In 2020, the best application of the Beatles catalog would be a preschool songbook. My impression was that the iTunes stunt was not received well because they had already lost popularity. "luk thung" [0]) and this kind of music would never appear in these Rolling Stone's Greatest Albums lists. But no list is definitive — tastes change, new genres emerge, the history of music keeps being rewritten. You don't have to go all the way to Thai music. Want more Rolling Stone? Trying to create a definitive "greatest albums" list is an exercise in futility. beauty has levels of objectivity. When it comes to music,'greatest' is judged in the very long range. Just treat the list as a fun piece of entertainment. particularly of the Greeks, there was an emphasis on its relation to mathematics, namely proportion and symmetry. Edit: a, not the. ...as did Adam Schlesinger of Fountains of Wayne. There’s a massive overcorrection going on here. I hope this answers your question. My teenaged kids have no interest in what I listen to, with the possible exception of Queen, and I think that has more to do with the biopic than organic discovery. It is indeed ugly and bad art (remember, this is objective). More sympathetically, Album vs Band seems like a confounding factor... the Beach Boys released some astonishing albums, but their overall standing as a band has to also consider the drivel they released. De gustibus... RS's Ranking always reminds me of: Huh? I bet a lot of this is attributed to the fact that it's harder for big labels to monopolize our music choices. So Sgt Pepper is beautiful? Loveless was somewhat of a rediscovered thing; before that, I imagine that Nirvana's Nevermind was one of the most beloved. A meaningful comparison of artists isn't possible in the broad sense. All the somewhat objective ranking methodologies I can think of rely on data sources such as top-sellers lists, which would result in not a ranking of best albums but rather of highest selling ones. The most obvious counterexample that comes to mind is Picasso's Guernica[1]. All non-white artists who have released an original recording (not a compilation) after Jane Jackson's Rhythm Nation in 1989 have been re-rated up since the 2012 survey. Lynyrd Skynyrd isn't even on that list, and Twenty One Pilots ranks significantly higher than Jimi Hendrix?!?! (interesting article btw). Elvis will rank a lot higher than the black artists whose music he was ripping off. 2. There’s a LOT of black albums suddenly appearing in the list making the previous lists look like they were compiled by Linnaeus. It's as old or older as a lot of the stuff it went above in ranking. Moby Grape kicked off the list? Everyone is surprised about the payola in these lists? There are certainly some segments of the art community that put beauty as the ultimate ideal. I dare say they hardly claim to be experts. If the list doesn’t change at all, there’s no news. What are the concrete levels of objectivity as applied to the judgment of quality of musical albums? First begun in 2003, a new list was issued in 2012, this time considering albums released during the 2000s. It's literally a popularity contest. Those things are enough to call it beautiful in mind book. , Tuesday, 15 September 2020 20:18 (four months ago) link on edit: or Beyonce losing 32 points - wow, sorry for her I guess. 500greatestalbums, alltime, Beastie Boys, Beck, Best Albums, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, Fleetwood Mac, Green Day, Jimi Hendrix, Pearl Jam, Radiohead, The Rolling Stones, The Strokes, The Who. I won't bother making a list but I'm quite surprised Queen's News of the world isn't present - 2 songs, played at almost any sporting event for the last 40 years. To your first point, would you argue art is not the field of human interest with beauty as its ideal? I'm not saying those genres didn't exist, I'm saying that when the baby boomers were growing up, music was MUCH more segregated than it is now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Country_Music_Hall_of_... (but DeFord Bailey was pre-Boomer). Twenty-five years ago, the firm started counting how Joe Music Fan was spending his bucks, instead of listening to a record store manager’s easily corrupted opinion. I think it's more just that tastes change and go through cycles, and guitar-based rock is on the decline (and might or might not recover; there are so many dead dead dead musical genres and instruments out there). There is no objective way to rank art. Music is art. aesthetic considerations like symmetry/asymmetry, simplicity/complexity are utilized in mathematics, physics and cosmology to define truth (or lack thereof). Rolling Stone was forced to change their coverage, although the "best of lists" have always reflected the tastes of their editorial staff, which has been slower to come around. I still listen to OK Computer and Kid A frequently; they absolutely hold up. Thank you for making this argument. Is processing fluency (ease to which information is processed) high? “During Covid is when some of my friends in their late 30s, early 40s, started tweeting about [card collecting],” Aoki tells Rolling Stone. > No, but there's such thing as a "somewhat objective album ranking". I don't think many people would agree with it. Guernica imitates reality as it is a depiction of a war crime. So it directly discouraged me from delving deeper into the Radiohead catalog and listening to all those killer songs because that one song didn't gel with me (and of course one song is never a fair representative of an entire artist's oeuvre). Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums 2003 vs. 2012 vs. 2020. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Country_Music_Hall_of_... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/19/books/penguin-random-hous... https://www.discogs.com/Vivaldi-Europa-Galante-Fabio-Biondi-... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1000_Years_of_Popular_Music, https://www.pablopicasso.org/images/paintings/guernica3.jpg. not just marketers and shallow dabblers) and who don't just pander to some fashion du jour when making a list in spite of their actual prefereneces thinking that this will make their list more sellable/controversial (and thus generating views)/etc. Variety of instruments on the album? art is the field of human interest whose ideal is beauty. One takeaway is that winning a nobel price in literature is bad for your Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums rating. If something is beautiful (which is objective), saying "it is ugly" does not make you ignorant so much as it makes you simply incorrect. If you really don't like this list, show me a better one, and I'll show you a list whose editors just happen to agree with your tastes more than the editors of the Rolling Stone list does. But 2003-2012 hardly changed at all, which makes sense. I noticed a few days ago that Sibelius wrote 7 (~ romantic) symphonies in 30 years, then none in the next 30 years as Bartok, Hindemith, Stravinsky et.al. I agree. One of my tinfoil conspiracy theories is that an unstated reason for the PMRC during the 1980s was not necessarily the "filthiness" of domestic music, but also that disco, never having died with the same finality in europe it that had domestically, had non-segregated audiences, and by the eurodance period, even featured integrated acts. Just to clarify the magazine is not named after the band. Rolling Stone reports that the RS 500 … It seems like the oldest new entry is Nina Simones With an 1966 album. 1. integritas (wholeness, integrity, perfection) My teenagers assumed it was a Rolling Stones fan magazine when I asked them about it. To be more sympathetic, perhaps this is more representative of 2020's music critics' demographic shifts, evaluation of pop music history, and changes in the way music is presented to listeners? Rolling Stone has rebooted their Top 500 Albums of All Time list - a new special issue has just been released. An important moment in pop music history was when the charts switched to actual sales data instead of what record store managers claimed were the top selling albums. The American version of Between the Buttons, which includes "Let's Spend the Night Together" and "Ruby Tuesday", is on the 2003 and 2012 versions of Rolling Stone magazine's 500 Greatest Albums … While posterity often sorts things out what a list like this misses is how big, and important, some records were when they came out. Therefore, since this work of art is the antithesis of beauty (ugliness, as you yourself say), it is also bad art, not to mention that the bad is not praised as the beautiful. for black people. It is objectively complete, harmonious, and clear. >No, but there's such thing as a "somewhat objective album ranking". is at position 233 with a change of -233. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. some of it feels sincere generational shift. It is one of the most renowned pieces of art of the 20th century. Killing off any chance of new fans. But yes, that doesn't explain all, or even most, of the shift in the rankings. And 'Dirty Mind' as 4th best Prince album at 326 from 206. Their original list came out in 2003, and a slightly updated version came out in 2012. Seriously. Rolling Stone: 500 Greatest Albums of All Time: 2012 edition ~ Release group series changed the face of music. White people in white areas were marketed music for white people, and v.v. Rolling Stone released a new version of its list of the 500 Greatest Albums of All Time, but the streaming era, with its explosion of records and musical … I think we are in a very new is cool mode right now that reminds me of the early 2000s and I think you will get your wish with old being rediscovered The next 10 years. Of course, there are a great many bands in the list that I've never even heard of. Lingual diversity? Not that they would have grown in popularity, but that the trail off got much steeper. Just because we can't measure something (e.g. Stop pimping your website. I don't think Kendrick Lamar moving from not being rated in previous years to #19 in 2020 with To Pimp A Butterfly represents a loss of 19 points. Over the years, it's been the most widely read — and argued over — feature in the history of the magazine (last year, the RS 500 got over 63 million views on the site). BTW, I also miss say Hot Rats in this rag, no King Crimson either, but then there's Ege Bamyasi, Kimono My House and Different Class which are favourites of mine and hadn't noticed before. A more interesting question to ask is: is this music in accordance with natural/divine law? Pet Sounds is also the more important of the two seminal rock albums, has aged better, and is actually the best Beach Boys album, as opposed to Sgt. Actually forget the shifting landscape of music, consider the shifting landscape of. Music appreciation is very much tied to its era. The lists presented were compiled based on votes from selected rock musicians, critics, and industry figures, and predominantly feature British and American music from the 1960s and 1970s. And that is very much the case with the Rolling Stone lists, though not the recent list as much as the previous lists. Another one that caught my eye was how Radiohead’s “Kid A” has been on all 3 lists and consistently climbing from the bottom, to the middle to the top 100. Rolling Stone: 500 Greatest Albums of All Time: 2012 edition ~ Release group series Point being, even choosing an evaluation criteria is subjective. Not quite what I'm saying. The Rolling Stones Satisfaction 1965 3. Yeah. and how one could arrive at the statement "semi-objective ranking". In 2000, the album was voted number 501 in Colin Larkin's All Time Top 1000 Albums. this is not limiting), and is clear (the form is readily made apparent to the mind, i.e. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/16/arts/music/aretha-frankli... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Award_records#Most_Gram... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums. Check out the Top 50 as they appear today and in 2003 below. This has been acknowledged by even the most canonical of music publications, Rolling Stone. Aside, for the record, I wouldn't have Sgt Pepper anywhere near my top ten "greatest albums", but What's Goin On and Pet Sounds can stay. edit: I think it's also worth asking the question of what role race played in the degree to which an artist or group was heralded "at the time". > TL;DR: Baby Boomers have lost influence at Rolling Stone in the last 20 years. If I remove my bias for old albums and just look at two of the more accessible new entrants in the list, Taylor Swift's Red and Arctic Monkey's AM. Rolling Stone Editors' Picks: The Best Products We Tried and Tested in March 2021, How to Watch Prince Harry and Meghan Markle’s Oprah Interview Online, ‘Allen v. Farrow’: What We Learned From First Three Episodes of Docuseries, Eminem Responds to Cancellation Attempt With ‘Tone Deaf’ Animated Video, See Foo Fighters Cover Andy Gibb’s ‘Shadow Dancing’ for Rock-N-Relief Livestream, Rolling Stone Interview: Special Edition With Zion Wright, John Burks, Rolling Stone’s First Managing Editor, Dead at 83, ‘OnlyFans: Selling Sexy’: Bella Thorne Invades Site in Clip From Hulu Doc. I can't view the formulae but some new-for-2020 albums show up as having fallen into their new positions. Kinda weird they are moving away from that. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums. Number of chord progressions used? Not saying I agree with or care much about the actual rankings here, but it’s a decent list to scroll through and reconsider an artist or band I haven’t given much ear time to before. Edit: never mind, guess their debut was on the 2012 list and then removed in favor of AM on the latest list. I would say that variance in taste or popularity does not imply beauty at all. The iTunes stunt didn't help, but I doubt it materially hurt their popularity either. A) beauty is a transcendental (a Platonic view) Does the existence dissenting opinion mean that I am incorrect? What objective criteria do you think should be used to do the ranking? #3 reason also applies to Fleetwood Mac since Mick Fleetwood died recently, and there does seem to have been a big critical reevaluation in the past year regarding Rumours (and Fleetwood Mac used to be loathed by the Rock press in the previous generation, so if more of their opponents disappear it just might lead to their re-evaluation), I think critical reevaluations of this sort often have to do with someone reminding the public of themselves, perhaps through death but also perhaps by doing something kick ass, so -. The top several award-winning groups aren't represented on the list, Preach brother! Is there? It's interesting to compare them to our crowd-sourced top 100 bands of all time on Gnoosic: Those two differences are a pretty harsh judgement on the wisdom of the crowd (or they should tell you you aren't using an especially culturally diverse crowd). I'd love to see some similar statements about how we can make objective statements on the beauty or quality of music. Today everything on the radio sounds like rap or pap to me. One of his albums is 30 places above Dark Side of the Moon. Send us a tip using our anonymous form. Also, consider that modern music didn't really become what it is today until the Elvis revolution in the late 50s (which is why almost nothing on this list pre-dates the 60s). Very difficult to find any of the music on YouTube though, because Lao script alphabet is so different, same as for Thai, I don’t even know how to type any of the letters. If you are saying beauty has some degree of objectivity because we share some common genetics that predisposes us to develop similarly, I understand what you're getting at, but it's still completely subjective. You can find the new Rolling Stone Top 500 here, and compare it to the Top 500 from 2003 here. There are just so many sources of recommendations that are better suited to aligning to an individual's musical tastes. In 10 years I hope this list looks different with more older stuff being rediscovered and new stuff rising to the top. Revolver (1966) by The Beatles / 4. Yeah, totally subjective at the end of the end of the day. Their original list came out in 2003, and a slightly updated version came out in 2012. /block of unsubstantiated opinions/ I don't think Rolling Stones claims to be a full list of all music of all time, nor do I think their editors would claim to be experts in all music. On the other hand, there are very many mediocre albums that made it. so im not arguing "Sgt. the definition of beauty converges on the conditions of integrity, harmony, and clarity. Past that there are a lot of labels that seem overlooked - 4AD and Hyperium Records come to mind. Sure, music is subjective, and that is why I don’t view ratings like that anything more than a curiosity. Any ranking of the "greatest" art is inherently just opinion. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (1967) by The Beatles / 2. It looks like they just used a random number generator for 2020. Does that effect it's ranking here? What's Going On is amazing, but it's also immediately recognizable by title and main song chorus, and as such used to evoke the song through that alone to great effect to this day.
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